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Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a
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TOPIC: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a
#35276
Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 72
Hi again lads,
What i basically wanna do is bolt a turbo straight onto a 3sge without taking the head off, lowering compression ratio, etc. because ive got a turbo lying around dont know what is off though lol.

The question is whats the maximum boost i could run it at then without it causing problems.

I googled a bit and found a few threads where people said 0.8bar would be the best pressure to have an n/a run at but on powerful engines like a v6, 350z engines and stuff.

Can anyone tell me how much boost a gen3 3sge can take before it starts to overheat and melt?

This may sound childish but im just mad to get a dumpvalve/blow off valve on it.
Dont offer me electric dumpvalves please!!!
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#35278
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 154
There have been a few threads where people have asked this before, in theory you could turbo a 3SGE though as it has not been designed to handle a turbo it will more than likely cause problems. Also its not just a case of bolting a turbo on if you were determined to go this route, you would have to upgrade a lot of things so yuor engine could cope with the boost.
If you really want to go the turbo route I would suggest...
1) 3SGTE engine swap (if you really want to keep your current car)
or
2) sell up and buy a turbo (which would be much less hastle and will work out cheaper)
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#35283
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 217
The only turbo boost pressure the 3SGE is safe at is 0 psi.

Anyone who has stated 0.8bar for this engine is slightly mad and obviously assuming the only difference between 3SGE and 3SGTE is the turbo.

That said, it probably isn't impossible as long as you are prepared to change just about every component in the engine that handles air, fuel, lubrication and cooling. Oh you will likely need a new ECU but not sure about that.

Some info at link below of similar project on MR2OC

www.mr2oc.co.uk/forums/mk2/citroen-ds3-inspired-me-147714.html




Engine swap or buy a tubby is good advice
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#35286
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 148
The lads are right dude. You would need to change almost everything. There is far more to it that just the T in 3SGTE. It would cost a bomb with I/C, piping, wiring, ECU amongst lots of other upgrades. Best do an engine swap. Even the turbo brakes are different. Also a random unkown turbo won't necessarily work, could have a different lange and so on.
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#35288
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 94
I don't know how the na gear box and clutch would handle the power. And then there is resale value. Sounds like a nightmare to me.
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#35294
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 328
To do what you want to do you need to do some fundemental things to the N/A engine.

1.) Replace the existing pistons to lower compression or you will just burn a hole in them. i.e. strip down and rebuild the engine.

2.) Get a method of measuring air flow volumes Maf Map or AFM.

3.) Get a standalone ECU to run the car on and wire it up.

4.) Multiple power runs to get a base map that will work on the engine and then one that will give a bit of power.

5.) Replace the existing gearbox, driveshafts, hubs.

6.) Replace the fuel pump, injector rail and injectors.

So if you have an spare N/A engine, are a mechanic, have around 4-5 thousand euro to spare then go for it.

It will be a big learning curve
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#35295
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 72
Thanks for the replies.
I know that there is a lot of things to change in the engine for it to take boost properly and it is cheaper to sell the engine and buy a turbo one but I'll still need all the wiring, and an ecu. Would the existing n/a gearbox fit onto a 3sgte?

But what I hoped to do is just take the easy way out just get a manifold for the turbo and bolt it on...
I read another thread, lad said he bolted his turbo straight on and is driving on low boost for about a yr now and has no problems with a 4 cylinder engine
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#35297
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 9
look this up it might be helpful
modifying the 3sg non turbo by terry o beirne
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#35298
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 72
Nice find thanks i wud be well up for doing it all myself if i had the money but i dont have thousands to spend on engine mods right now
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#35320
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 328
spla300 wrote:
Would the existing n/a gearbox fit onto a 3sgte?

Nope
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#35341
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 137
spla300 wrote:
Nice find thanks i wud be well up for doing it all myself if i had the money but i dont have thousands to spend on engine mods right now

As long as your MR2 is going OK at the moment, if I was you I would just save up for either a 3SGTE swap or sell your n/a and buy a turbo model.

Out of curiosity, how about posting a photo of this "unknown" turbo.
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#35373
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 72
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#35375
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 314
Can you get a photo of the turbo next to something familiar like a 10 eur note?
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#35376
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 72
yeah i will tomorrow. any idea what it could be off?
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#35377
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 137
It looks like it is from the VW/Audi group.
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#35379
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 72
is that a good thing???
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#35380
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 137
I have looked up the code. It is from a Mercedes C220 CDI 125 hp.
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#35381
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 217
Quandry wrote:
Can you get a photo of the turbo next to something familiar like a 10 eur note?


It looks like it is slightly smaller than a CT20 or CT26 turbo.

Garrett turbos appear on a lot of cars and other engines. I noticed some garrett turbo on one of our generators in work .... four in total all about the size of my head but that is a ~1200hp diesel engine (loads of tourque), unfortunately it's big for a MR2 conversion as it sits in a 40ft container is a louder than a japspeed at full revs
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#35383
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 72
Yeah it does look pretty big ill post another pic tomorrow with something beside it
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#35384
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 2
We have turbo'd/supercharged alot of N/A car in the past and they all have worked perfectly just be sensible with the boost

We done a Honda B16 about 2 months ago with a race tech turbo kit that he supplied fitted to the car, we supplied the hondata and fitted the injectors etc for him and it made 0.4/5 bar mid range but it crept to 0.7 bar about 7000rpm and held to 8500rpm. It made 289BHP and 207Ib/ft on the standard engine and ran perfect, that car had about 160BHP and 130Ib/ft standard so it was a major improvement.

I would strongly recommend in your case a 3SGTE engine etc and loom swap as it will be the cheapest and most reliable in the long run, the hours that you could run into patching things into your wiring loom etc could be alot or alternatively just buy a turbo car ready to go.

If you are getting someone to do the turbo on to your own engine i would be getting an exact quote of them as things can run on and on untill you could possibily have a bill that is more than a turbo car's worth.
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#35385
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 137
spla300 wrote:
is that a good thing???

Save yourself from all the head and heartaches and just flog it. You will regret trying to get it to fit your MR2 and because of the amount of work and money involved.
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#35387
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 72
ok thanks for the advise 3sgte engine it is so when i save up some cash.

Ill need the engine itself (obviously) with the wiring, the gearbox since the 3sge one dosent fit, drive shafts, and the ecu.
Am i forgetting anything
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#35391
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 137
I'm not sure, but the engine mounts might need changing.

What revision 3SGTE are you going for ?
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#35394
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 72
But sure the engine mounts will be on the engine... wont they? why would anyone wanna take them off?
What revisions are there?
Preferibly one thats not too hungry for petrol
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#35396
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 217
spla300 wrote:
Preferably one thats not too hungry for petrol



rev3+ 3SGTEs are generally accepted as being a little more robust - head gasket etc is better and in stock form they delivery slightly more power.

Have a looky here though ....

www.mr2.ie/mr2-forum/6-buy-swap-and-sell...90-98mr2-turbo-rev-5

Perhaps a swap+cash could be on the cards for an excellent example of a tubby and a revision 5 - the last version to be made in the late 90s.

You will need to bear in mind that an engine swap will seriously affect your insurance and will likely cost more than a car that comes with as a tubby from the factory.

Good luck and keep us posted whatever you decide to do.


Oh, another option in the engine swap catagory is V6. The Camry 3l V6 slots in nicely and can be supercharged for 200+bhp with massive tourque and tubby beating acceleration (and noise). I'm sure the guys at ECC or a similar outfit could quote you for this if you wouldn't be doing it yourself
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#35397
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 137
You would probably be best getting a revision 3,4, or 5 as they came with more power as standard, though they are slightly more expensive than revision 2. Make sure you get the ecu suitable for which ever 3SGTE revision you buy, as the ecus are also different.

Do not buy a revision 1 3SGTE.

Just make sure the engine mounts come with the engine.
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#35400
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 2
Spanky wrote:
spla300 wrote:
Preferably one thats not too hungry for petrol



rev3+ 3SGTEs are generally accepted as being a little more robust - head gasket etc is better and in stock form they delivery slightly more power.

Have a looky here though ....

www.mr2.ie/mr2-forum/6-buy-swap-and-sell...90-98mr2-turbo-rev-5

Perhaps a swap+cash could be on the cards for an excellent example of a tubby and a revision 5 - the last version to be made in the late 90s.

You will need to bear in mind that an engine swap will seriously affect your insurance and will likely cost more than a car that comes with as a tubby from the factory.

Good luck and keep us posted whatever you decide to do.


Oh, another option in the engine swap catagory is V6. The Camry 3l V6 slots in nicely and can be supercharged for 200+bhp with massive tourque and tubby beating acceleration (and noise). I'm sure the guys at ECC or a similar outfit could quote you for this if you wouldn't be doing it yourself


Would love to do a V6 one
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#35402
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 72
That mr2 for sale os expensive. I wud only pay about 2000 for it and that's if I had money to throw around. Its completely stock.
And how wud the insurance go up if I don't send out the log book?
And what's wrong with a revision 1 3sgte?
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#35415
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 137
By law you have to notify local authorities of a change of engine if the car is to be driven on public roads. If you do not notify the insurance company of the engine change and you have a accident then your insurance is null and void.

Revision 1 engines by design are not as robust or as powerful as later 3SGTE models.
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#35417
Re: Bolt a turbo straight onto an n/a 9 Years ago Karma: 72
Are u a guard or something?
Have u got any idea how many ppl do this sort of stuff and never bother sending out their logbook?
Loads of civics going around with big ass engines in them their bonnets don't even close properly
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